I'm very surprised, especially with Jamie, that you all got through 77 minutes about power and movement building without mentioning workers, labor or unions. Maybe just a mention or a flag....
The chances of building and sustaining the electoral coalition we need to address climate change without a a strong, vibrant labor movement are close to zero.
And, for the curious, union households favored Harris and have a higher propensity to vote than non-union households. A few results for union households: national Harris +9, PA +9, MI +16, WI +6, NV +6. Mike Podhorzer is my go-to analyst (and former co-worker).
In response to David's rant: "no one is doing this"...ie social media by local activists, check out the Solar Rights's Alliance (https://solarrights.org), a rooftop solar consumer advocacy organization in California. They have been very effective in getting (mostly older) solar owners to show up at the legislature and CPUC in big numbers. On SB 1374 (Becker) last year, an NEMA/VNEM bill that was the IOUs' number one target to defeat, Legislative staffers said they got more visits and calls than any other bill that session, to every insider's surprise, the bill passed out of the Legislature. And Newsom waited until the last day at the end the week at 6 PM (to minimize media coverage) to veto the bill. While the bill didn't pass, it was a huge wake-up call about the IOUs false cost shift narrative for many Legislators, and more important, staffers.
If the host of Volts - David I’m looking at you - won’t install solar and batteries in 2025, WTF are we even doing? I don’t know David’s financial situation, so that may not be fair, but I do know a ton of well off folks that say climate and transition are important AND THEN DON’T DO SHIT ABOUT IT. I’m challenging David and everyone else in this space to put their money where their mouth is.
OK, I'm all in but we have a LOT OF WORK to do. And just emphasizing "permitting reform" for roof top solar is not going to get us there.
David, your questions were great, and I'm not sure well, or completely answered. The activists who did so well at publicizing the threats of climate change and the contributions of fossil fuels seem to have bifurcated into some solutions tech bros and gals, (they go to your Seattle talks I think) or gone half-MAHA chrunchy and are freaked out about every form of "extraction" and "industrial" and "toxic" and "habitat" part of wind and solar and storage. But maybe it's my milieu.
You asked about the green funding and one of the first times I listened to your pod it was some nitwit blathering about how green billionaires should fund fusion startups. What was that, "effective altruism?" Yeah.
I've watched 500 MW of solar farm proposals get shot down nearby in the last year. A few tiny ones making it through. Almost zilch interest from Colorado climate orgs. Recently Protect Our Winters did start a campaign to support industrial wind and solar. I thought. But then a conversation about "clean" energy made it seem like they were getting sucked down our governor's "Heat Beneath Our Feet" fantasy of geothermal electric. After three years, not a single kWh. Zip. Nada. Bupkis. OK, maybe some waste heat from an oil well generated power at 2% efficiency. (Less, land and spoiled views while trail running, though.) Other orgs just keep repeating divest banks (about 1% of the general public knows what that has to do with anything), stop leasing, drilling, fracking, oil trains, etc. etc.
A lot of local "climate activists" have been convinced that "regenerative ag" is a more sustainable solution. Recently a well-funded local enviro group sponsored a presentation about two-acre farming and living in teepees. WTF, indeed!
I wrote a longer comment below, but wanted to reiterate that our focus needs to shift to killing the ICE industry completely as quickly as possible. The internal combustion industry has about a decade left. Once the last gas-burning engine is made, all future cars will be electric. This means when Mr. MAGA goes into his local Ford dealer in 2036, the only car/truck/SUV he can buy is electric.
We can force everyone to only drive electric vehicles. That's power we should wield with gusto. Our movement needs to lean heavily on dems who are still buying 20,000 new ICE cars every single day in the US. Do you know a dem in the market for a car? Make sure they don't buy another gas burner. That's your job!
I installed solar in 2002 and bought my first EV the same year. Been powering my home, cars, and motorcycles on solar energy for 23 years. I sold solar for many years, then sold EVs starting in 2011. I sold more Nissan Leafs in 2011 than anyone in the world. All this to say, I’m all for encouraging people to switch to EV/PV.
However, Americans bought 16 million light vehicles last year and 92% of them were ICE. That’s over 40,000 new gas cars sold every day on average. The cheapest gas car you can buy is a Nissan econo box for about $18,000. For that much money, you can buy a very good used EV, a much better car than the Nissan. And you'll never buy gasoline again. It’s easy to buy renewable energy from your utility or third party generators so you can drive pollution-free well-to-wheels.
Given the electorate is 50/50, about half those 40,000 new gas cars were bought by dems. Every single one of them could have easily afforded an EV. Seems those people are very low hanging fruit. While we can continue encouraging folks to go solar, we should simultaneously discourage folks from buying new gas cars.
Gavin Newsom is saying that California will pony up incentives for EV adoption to replace the federal money Trump takes away Sept. 30th. Our cap & trade pot has about $4 billion. If CA were to take a meager $10 million of that and hire writers/directors/producers to make a suite of media for Tick Tock and TV with some of the money set aside for distribution, all aimed at informing liberal audiences (young first time car buyers, parents, old folks) that buying a new gas car is the worst thing they can do, we could seriously impact the sale of those vehicles.
The end of manufacturing internal combustion engines is about a decade away. It’s been estimated that some 600-700 million new ICE cars will be sold between now and then. With effort, we should be able to reduce that number by over 100 million gas cars.
Ending all manufacturing of ICE should be a top priority of our movement.
OK. Maybe I'm a bit too negative on my comrades, w/o noting the epic level of fossil-fueled "energy" propaganda. As Monty Python said, "Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition." Between the epic level of wrongness from Wright and stupidity from "social" media, it bleeds over into local and national actual "news" coverage.
So here in CO, in the past two years the legislature failed. First to pass over-rides on "local control" (meaning 9 of 10 W&S projects are denied, while 9 of 10 O&G projects are approved) of solar & wind land use permitting. Second to pass any useful requirements for quicker residential solar permitting. (They passed some symbolic fluff.) But spent time passing a bill defining nukes as "clean." So "activists" should start by getting real on these.
The gov got national attention recently by telling his administration to prioritize renewable/EV action to allow folks to get tax credits before expiration. I think they did push some charging station approvals out the door, but mostly they don't have much to do with wind and solar. Maybe the wildlife folks are reviewing some solar/wind applications, but it seems most counties want to deny the applications even if the wildlife department thinks it's low impact.
We need to see what else our leg needs to do to help get "steel in the ground" quickly and cheaply. I'm conflicted about stuff like the now-court-delayed law requiring health warnings on gas stoves. Does that make the state gov appear "anti-fossil," w/o actually doing much, while we produce 5% of the nation's total gas, and keep burning coal with potentially indefinite delays in replacements?
I think I read somewhere that Oregon leg did not pass some bill defining agri-voltaics as a by-right ag land use or something. And that something along those lines is in play in Washington state? Can the blue states deliver?
And somehow "we" need to get a variety of positive and debunking and prebunking to social and traditional media. For instance, Colorado Public Radio reported that a solar farm had been "wrecked" by a tornado, with alarming pics on their website. Really, like the Ukraine story relayed by McKibben, it was back in biz at 80% after a quick inspection, and the rest is easily repaired. But that was never a "story."
And so on; sorry for the repeated TL comments, but my "brain is squirming like a toad," as Jim Morrison sang.
I feel like you would enjoy a conversation with Malcom Harris his book "What's Left" is a leftist variant of that Abundance, and makes a lot of your points from this episode.
I am going to send an email to some folks I know at Way to Win because I think there are collaboration opportunities between the groups that they help fund and these climate folks. The opportunity to organize around something exciting and to a degree fun is something that everyone certainly can use.
I would also like to get in touch with Bill and Jaime to suggest that if they make use of the race-class-gender narrative framework in their messaging, it will be more effective than if they don't.
Role of the "information environment" on the climate movement: So, I spend the last 5 years thinking the media was just not comfortable with the grim story or the science. However, the strict self-censorship of media and governments around events in the Middle East since 2023, and their stubborn refusal to respond to protests by thousands of citizens, makes me think now that the sluggish information environment around climate change and climate action and climate bad guys was and is completely intentional.
Solar panels are not effective or a reliable power source and they are manufactured mostly in Asia. Examples: overcast skies, night, storage. Hydrogen is a better replacement for fossil fuels on a Grid supply level.
When Musk came out with Tesla Roof, the batteries for storage were more costly the the roof top production elements.
Solar Pakistan is a publicity stunt. Unfortunately most of the citizens of Pakistan, even with the Chinese over production, are still on the national grid. According to reliable people in Pakistan.
I'm very surprised, especially with Jamie, that you all got through 77 minutes about power and movement building without mentioning workers, labor or unions. Maybe just a mention or a flag....
The chances of building and sustaining the electoral coalition we need to address climate change without a a strong, vibrant labor movement are close to zero.
And, for the curious, union households favored Harris and have a higher propensity to vote than non-union households. A few results for union households: national Harris +9, PA +9, MI +16, WI +6, NV +6. Mike Podhorzer is my go-to analyst (and former co-worker).
Finally, to end on a high note, here is the remarkable story of the IBEW and NRDC and how they turned the tide on solar in Ohio of all places. https://ibew.org/electrical_worker/solar-alliance/?ref=news
In response to David's rant: "no one is doing this"...ie social media by local activists, check out the Solar Rights's Alliance (https://solarrights.org), a rooftop solar consumer advocacy organization in California. They have been very effective in getting (mostly older) solar owners to show up at the legislature and CPUC in big numbers. On SB 1374 (Becker) last year, an NEMA/VNEM bill that was the IOUs' number one target to defeat, Legislative staffers said they got more visits and calls than any other bill that session, to every insider's surprise, the bill passed out of the Legislature. And Newsom waited until the last day at the end the week at 6 PM (to minimize media coverage) to veto the bill. While the bill didn't pass, it was a huge wake-up call about the IOUs false cost shift narrative for many Legislators, and more important, staffers.
In thr past 6-9 months they have dabbling in social media, hired a full-time person focusing on social media (https://www.instagram.com/solar_rights_alliance/?hl=en). I encourage to interview the ED, Dave Rosenfeld
If the host of Volts - David I’m looking at you - won’t install solar and batteries in 2025, WTF are we even doing? I don’t know David’s financial situation, so that may not be fair, but I do know a ton of well off folks that say climate and transition are important AND THEN DON’T DO SHIT ABOUT IT. I’m challenging David and everyone else in this space to put their money where their mouth is.
David doesn’t like to broadcast this but there’s a SMR in his basement.
It might actually be our very slow moving utility here in Seattle
OK, I'm all in but we have a LOT OF WORK to do. And just emphasizing "permitting reform" for roof top solar is not going to get us there.
David, your questions were great, and I'm not sure well, or completely answered. The activists who did so well at publicizing the threats of climate change and the contributions of fossil fuels seem to have bifurcated into some solutions tech bros and gals, (they go to your Seattle talks I think) or gone half-MAHA chrunchy and are freaked out about every form of "extraction" and "industrial" and "toxic" and "habitat" part of wind and solar and storage. But maybe it's my milieu.
You asked about the green funding and one of the first times I listened to your pod it was some nitwit blathering about how green billionaires should fund fusion startups. What was that, "effective altruism?" Yeah.
I've watched 500 MW of solar farm proposals get shot down nearby in the last year. A few tiny ones making it through. Almost zilch interest from Colorado climate orgs. Recently Protect Our Winters did start a campaign to support industrial wind and solar. I thought. But then a conversation about "clean" energy made it seem like they were getting sucked down our governor's "Heat Beneath Our Feet" fantasy of geothermal electric. After three years, not a single kWh. Zip. Nada. Bupkis. OK, maybe some waste heat from an oil well generated power at 2% efficiency. (Less, land and spoiled views while trail running, though.) Other orgs just keep repeating divest banks (about 1% of the general public knows what that has to do with anything), stop leasing, drilling, fracking, oil trains, etc. etc.
A lot of local "climate activists" have been convinced that "regenerative ag" is a more sustainable solution. Recently a well-funded local enviro group sponsored a presentation about two-acre farming and living in teepees. WTF, indeed!
And "lithium?" OMG!
I wrote a longer comment below, but wanted to reiterate that our focus needs to shift to killing the ICE industry completely as quickly as possible. The internal combustion industry has about a decade left. Once the last gas-burning engine is made, all future cars will be electric. This means when Mr. MAGA goes into his local Ford dealer in 2036, the only car/truck/SUV he can buy is electric.
We can force everyone to only drive electric vehicles. That's power we should wield with gusto. Our movement needs to lean heavily on dems who are still buying 20,000 new ICE cars every single day in the US. Do you know a dem in the market for a car? Make sure they don't buy another gas burner. That's your job!
I installed solar in 2002 and bought my first EV the same year. Been powering my home, cars, and motorcycles on solar energy for 23 years. I sold solar for many years, then sold EVs starting in 2011. I sold more Nissan Leafs in 2011 than anyone in the world. All this to say, I’m all for encouraging people to switch to EV/PV.
However, Americans bought 16 million light vehicles last year and 92% of them were ICE. That’s over 40,000 new gas cars sold every day on average. The cheapest gas car you can buy is a Nissan econo box for about $18,000. For that much money, you can buy a very good used EV, a much better car than the Nissan. And you'll never buy gasoline again. It’s easy to buy renewable energy from your utility or third party generators so you can drive pollution-free well-to-wheels.
Given the electorate is 50/50, about half those 40,000 new gas cars were bought by dems. Every single one of them could have easily afforded an EV. Seems those people are very low hanging fruit. While we can continue encouraging folks to go solar, we should simultaneously discourage folks from buying new gas cars.
Gavin Newsom is saying that California will pony up incentives for EV adoption to replace the federal money Trump takes away Sept. 30th. Our cap & trade pot has about $4 billion. If CA were to take a meager $10 million of that and hire writers/directors/producers to make a suite of media for Tick Tock and TV with some of the money set aside for distribution, all aimed at informing liberal audiences (young first time car buyers, parents, old folks) that buying a new gas car is the worst thing they can do, we could seriously impact the sale of those vehicles.
The end of manufacturing internal combustion engines is about a decade away. It’s been estimated that some 600-700 million new ICE cars will be sold between now and then. With effort, we should be able to reduce that number by over 100 million gas cars.
Ending all manufacturing of ICE should be a top priority of our movement.
OK. Maybe I'm a bit too negative on my comrades, w/o noting the epic level of fossil-fueled "energy" propaganda. As Monty Python said, "Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition." Between the epic level of wrongness from Wright and stupidity from "social" media, it bleeds over into local and national actual "news" coverage.
So here in CO, in the past two years the legislature failed. First to pass over-rides on "local control" (meaning 9 of 10 W&S projects are denied, while 9 of 10 O&G projects are approved) of solar & wind land use permitting. Second to pass any useful requirements for quicker residential solar permitting. (They passed some symbolic fluff.) But spent time passing a bill defining nukes as "clean." So "activists" should start by getting real on these.
The gov got national attention recently by telling his administration to prioritize renewable/EV action to allow folks to get tax credits before expiration. I think they did push some charging station approvals out the door, but mostly they don't have much to do with wind and solar. Maybe the wildlife folks are reviewing some solar/wind applications, but it seems most counties want to deny the applications even if the wildlife department thinks it's low impact.
We need to see what else our leg needs to do to help get "steel in the ground" quickly and cheaply. I'm conflicted about stuff like the now-court-delayed law requiring health warnings on gas stoves. Does that make the state gov appear "anti-fossil," w/o actually doing much, while we produce 5% of the nation's total gas, and keep burning coal with potentially indefinite delays in replacements?
I think I read somewhere that Oregon leg did not pass some bill defining agri-voltaics as a by-right ag land use or something. And that something along those lines is in play in Washington state? Can the blue states deliver?
And somehow "we" need to get a variety of positive and debunking and prebunking to social and traditional media. For instance, Colorado Public Radio reported that a solar farm had been "wrecked" by a tornado, with alarming pics on their website. Really, like the Ukraine story relayed by McKibben, it was back in biz at 80% after a quick inspection, and the rest is easily repaired. But that was never a "story."
And so on; sorry for the repeated TL comments, but my "brain is squirming like a toad," as Jim Morrison sang.
Seems like some smart young person could do a TikTok challenge that would highlight solar work or whatever is going on in different communities.
I feel like you would enjoy a conversation with Malcom Harris his book "What's Left" is a leftist variant of that Abundance, and makes a lot of your points from this episode.
Another uplifting thought provoking commentary from you and guests:
*Here Comes The Sun*
I am going to send an email to some folks I know at Way to Win because I think there are collaboration opportunities between the groups that they help fund and these climate folks. The opportunity to organize around something exciting and to a degree fun is something that everyone certainly can use.
I would also like to get in touch with Bill and Jaime to suggest that if they make use of the race-class-gender narrative framework in their messaging, it will be more effective than if they don't.
Every little bit.
PS If folks would like to learn about the race-class-gender narrative, I put together an Introduction to RCGN doc that they may want to take a look at https://docs.google.com/document/d/16wE1lysyAkK-17wiMuMXR5O40iOAPV6469x3WHVmpoE/edit?usp=drivesdk.I
Role of the "information environment" on the climate movement: So, I spend the last 5 years thinking the media was just not comfortable with the grim story or the science. However, the strict self-censorship of media and governments around events in the Middle East since 2023, and their stubborn refusal to respond to protests by thousands of citizens, makes me think now that the sluggish information environment around climate change and climate action and climate bad guys was and is completely intentional.
Solar panels are not effective or a reliable power source and they are manufactured mostly in Asia. Examples: overcast skies, night, storage. Hydrogen is a better replacement for fossil fuels on a Grid supply level.
When Musk came out with Tesla Roof, the batteries for storage were more costly the the roof top production elements.
Did you listen to literally one word that was said on the podcast?
Go Google "solar Pakistan" and maybe you'll understand why I'm laughing my ass off at your comment.
Solar Pakistan is a publicity stunt. Unfortunately most of the citizens of Pakistan, even with the Chinese over production, are still on the national grid. According to reliable people in Pakistan.
It looks like surrender.
We get to be the ones part of the solution…not surrender