I use the newly-electrified Caltrain which was mentioned in the episode. As Alon says, it's much faster and quieter than the diesel trains were before. That + more trains/hour has led to increasing ridership (though still below pre-pandemic levels).
We spent $2.4B to electrify 52mi = $46m/mi = $28m/km:
"Netting out the elements that are not direct electrification infrastructure, this is till well into the teens of millions per kilometer. " --> Lets say $15m/km ( * 1.6 km/mi * 52 mi = total of $1.2B of the project for the electrification part)
"the RIA Electrification Challenge overall says that the cost on double track is in the $3.8-5.7 million/km range in today’s prices, and typical Continental European costs are somewhat lower." --> Could have cost $315m to 475m
So depending on which comparison you use, we spent 3-5x as much as should have been, overpaying by $725-800m.
Really enjoying these transit interviews. We (gov'ts and districts in the US) gotta figure out how to do these things at reasonable cost.
An analog in the electricity sphere was illustrated on I think the Energy Gang with a guy with a data center construction biz talking about the "transformer shortage." He said he was able to procure plenty of transformers by writing a std spec for a few hundred, using multiples or a bit of oversizing on different size projects. He said the "shortage" was due to separate specs from every utility for every project resulting in 30,000 varieties resulting in hand building...
Saul Griffith is doing a series on "Make Electricity Cheap Again" with some focus to some extent on unneeded costs in the electricity biz.
One little request would be some show notes with references and links to these guests most important info. I know where to dig for energy info, but I'm sort of just fishing on these other subjects.
Referitor la trenuri rapide aici la mine în țară e dezastru!! După cum probabil ați aflat/ citit în mass-media !
Visul meu ar fi : să văd circulând 🚆 trenurile di România pe perna magnetică ! Asta ar fi o chestiune de schimbare serioasă în transportul feroviar intern cu o parcurgere a distanțelor între orașe semnificativ redusă cu 60/70% fata de cea actuală !!!!!
Exemplu ; tren accelerat pe ruta Oradea Mangalia 14 ore !dar ajunge în totdeauna la Mangalia cu 2 ore întârziere !!!!!🚆
Having lived in the SF Bay Area (with the experience of waking up and having the option to take subway, light rail, bus, motorcycle, car- and even walk- to work or wherever), I would love to hear what Alon's thoughts might be re: Honolulu Authority for "Rapid" Transportation. I'm not sure if we would have heard laughing, crying or screaming- but it would have been interesting...
Fascinating discussion - I truly think "[using] chaos theory to model bus delays" is the most interesting sentence I've heard all year! Fragmentation of authority and basically making privatization a public project when dealing with project delivery are incredible insights - and apparently "counter intuitive" ones in the "privatize everything" world. Can't remember where I saw this, but here in Chicago, the red line extension cost around $1B per mile, enough for it to be cheaper to buy every rider a Porsche Taycan. Similar to housing, we simply have to get the costs right to get more of it
I use the newly-electrified Caltrain which was mentioned in the episode. As Alon says, it's much faster and quieter than the diesel trains were before. That + more trains/hour has led to increasing ridership (though still below pre-pandemic levels).
I was going to ask, what would have been the Spanish costs for doing this? Just found Alon's post on basically this: https://pedestrianobservations.com/2025/07/31/how-one-bad-project-can-poison-the-entire-mode/
We spent $2.4B to electrify 52mi = $46m/mi = $28m/km:
"Netting out the elements that are not direct electrification infrastructure, this is till well into the teens of millions per kilometer. " --> Lets say $15m/km ( * 1.6 km/mi * 52 mi = total of $1.2B of the project for the electrification part)
"the RIA Electrification Challenge overall says that the cost on double track is in the $3.8-5.7 million/km range in today’s prices, and typical Continental European costs are somewhat lower." --> Could have cost $315m to 475m
So depending on which comparison you use, we spent 3-5x as much as should have been, overpaying by $725-800m.
Thanks for finding and posting this. I had similar questions.
Really enjoying these transit interviews. We (gov'ts and districts in the US) gotta figure out how to do these things at reasonable cost.
An analog in the electricity sphere was illustrated on I think the Energy Gang with a guy with a data center construction biz talking about the "transformer shortage." He said he was able to procure plenty of transformers by writing a std spec for a few hundred, using multiples or a bit of oversizing on different size projects. He said the "shortage" was due to separate specs from every utility for every project resulting in 30,000 varieties resulting in hand building...
Saul Griffith is doing a series on "Make Electricity Cheap Again" with some focus to some extent on unneeded costs in the electricity biz.
One little request would be some show notes with references and links to these guests most important info. I know where to dig for energy info, but I'm sort of just fishing on these other subjects.
Mulțumesc pentru descriere mis plăcut !
Referitor la trenuri rapide aici la mine în țară e dezastru!! După cum probabil ați aflat/ citit în mass-media !
Visul meu ar fi : să văd circulând 🚆 trenurile di România pe perna magnetică ! Asta ar fi o chestiune de schimbare serioasă în transportul feroviar intern cu o parcurgere a distanțelor între orașe semnificativ redusă cu 60/70% fata de cea actuală !!!!!
Exemplu ; tren accelerat pe ruta Oradea Mangalia 14 ore !dar ajunge în totdeauna la Mangalia cu 2 ore întârziere !!!!!🚆
Ugh Seattle's Sounder is like every thing that is incorrect. The step up is annoying and causes issues every day.
Ugh Seattle's Sounder is like every thing that is incorrect. The step up is annoying and causes issues every day.
Having lived in the SF Bay Area (with the experience of waking up and having the option to take subway, light rail, bus, motorcycle, car- and even walk- to work or wherever), I would love to hear what Alon's thoughts might be re: Honolulu Authority for "Rapid" Transportation. I'm not sure if we would have heard laughing, crying or screaming- but it would have been interesting...
Transcript?
Fascinating discussion - I truly think "[using] chaos theory to model bus delays" is the most interesting sentence I've heard all year! Fragmentation of authority and basically making privatization a public project when dealing with project delivery are incredible insights - and apparently "counter intuitive" ones in the "privatize everything" world. Can't remember where I saw this, but here in Chicago, the red line extension cost around $1B per mile, enough for it to be cheaper to buy every rider a Porsche Taycan. Similar to housing, we simply have to get the costs right to get more of it