1. Towards the end, David suggests that the whole of the magic is adding batteries. This idea, however, skips over a point brought out earlier—that collocation of batteries and solar creates a 5x efficiency on grid interconnection. Because grid interconnection is arguably the biggest constraint on solar development today in most parts of the US, that efficiency gain matters.
2. The idea that *supply* needs to do all the work is unduly burdening solar+storage economics. While assuming flat demand isa useful academic exercise, and possibly relevant for off-grid applications, any sensible energy market brings demand-side shaping into the game. Moreover, the natural demand shape is not flat but dips overnight, precisely when solar is not producing while most of us are sleeping. Consequently the modeled need for firm, flat power is unduly pessimistic. Demand should be able to flex and allow for further cost savings.
3. Land lease costs are too important to skip over; consequently the paper’s cost estimates are likely too low.
4. A grid composed of mostly solar+storage is far more reliable than the current ‘central station’ model. That is, the N-1 or N-1-1 NERC contingency tests are going to require fewer reserves for the solar+storage grid than the CCGT/nuke grid. Therefore, the estimated costs overstate the total consumer costs of a solar+storage grid.
Clean energy inventions offer safe, clean, cheap fuel-less sources of constant energy. They compare favorably with 'renewable energy sources' such as solar farms and wind turbines which generate cumbersome intermittent electricity that are still somewhat expensive and require backups.
The Gallery of Clean Energy Inventions is linked in https://app.box.com/v/cleanenergyexhibit and padrak.com/vesperman. The exhibit displays profiles of 31 Larger Generators, 36 Smaller Generators, 30 Advanced Self-Powered Electric Vehicle Innovations, 29 Radioactivity Neutralization Methods, 30 Space Travel Innovations, 25 Technical Solutions to Water Shortages, and a Torsion Field School Network.
I’m also a techno-optimist, but as the former CEO of an ocean-wave energy company, I’m also a realist about how difficult and time-consuming it is to turn good ideas into commercial reality. The advantage of solar+storage(+wind) is that these are all off-the-shelf solutions available today.
Hey Dave ReThink X,Tony Seba, et al have a clean energy cost curve for solar wind & batteries , 3.5 - 5x more generation than storage to optimize system cost. Their study is dated give the drastic drop in battery costs. https://tldrify.com/1fzn
Their system design is as crucial. Design for the least amount of S&W available. Where I live that can be 100hours + , in the winter.
If we are electrifying heating long (er) storage capacity is required in northern latitudes.
Very interesting discussion. I would like this type of discussion (solar/battery) applied to an individual homeowner. I have solar for 100% of my usage (including 2 BEVs) and want to use those BEVs as a battery backup with bidirectional charging for necessary home devices during a short blackout (~3 days max). I would also like to hear discussion about putting more than 100% of use on my roof and selling my power to the grid at a reasonable price (10% discount at most).
Some of the generators profiled in the Gallery of Clean Energy Inventions are already available 'off the shelf'. See Spintronic Generator, plasma biomass gasification, protein nanowires, thermionic converter, iron-air battery, solar radiant energy, magnetic energy generator, Magneto-Inertial Fusion of Deuterium and Helium-3, PowerPod Circular Wind Turbine Generator, neutrinovoltaic generator, thermoelectric generator, Airthium’s High-Temperature Heat Pump, Magnetic Propulsion Engine, Hybrid Solid Fuel Battery with Reduced Generation Costs
I was recently listening to a YouTube from a solar installer in Texas who analyzed the cost differentials between Europe and USA installations and the additional hidden bullshit costs associated with getting anything done in the United States triples the cost to us consumers. I find this so ridiculous and disgusting. I've known this to be the case for Australia versus the USA for many years as I listen to Australian solar programs. Unfortunately, I'm stuck here in this end of life country that seems to be doing everything it can to fail these days. Great program. Appreciate it and as always love you folks..
Did said Youtuber mention Texas Senate Bill 1202, which was signed into law? It is reportedly designed to streamline the permitting process for rooftop solar installations, potentially reducing costs for homeowners. We'll see what happens! 😉 Some claim that avoiding the soft costs related to permitting might make up for something like a 30% tax credit.
Not a competent discussion. Massive subsidies are still required which will now flow into electric rates with reduced federal tax incentives. Grid operators have come out with recent reports that highlight the inability of wind, soar and batteries to achieve affordable and reliable electricity. Clean energy credits and offtake agreements cost ten times or more than wholesale electric prices. Very misleading presentation; poorly conceived!
Are you for real or some poorly contrived Fossil industry AI right-wing fascist Chum spewing bot? I thought we were done with this garbage but I guess whatever you are will continue spewing nonsense, hoping one of us are idiotic enough to Believe you are for real. Would we be here if we were that dumb? I'll just assume you are a machine being run by a maggot on some some automatic crawler trying to disrupt honest discourse throughout the entire web. Sad. Even more sad if you're real
A few reflections on this excellent podcast:
1. Towards the end, David suggests that the whole of the magic is adding batteries. This idea, however, skips over a point brought out earlier—that collocation of batteries and solar creates a 5x efficiency on grid interconnection. Because grid interconnection is arguably the biggest constraint on solar development today in most parts of the US, that efficiency gain matters.
2. The idea that *supply* needs to do all the work is unduly burdening solar+storage economics. While assuming flat demand isa useful academic exercise, and possibly relevant for off-grid applications, any sensible energy market brings demand-side shaping into the game. Moreover, the natural demand shape is not flat but dips overnight, precisely when solar is not producing while most of us are sleeping. Consequently the modeled need for firm, flat power is unduly pessimistic. Demand should be able to flex and allow for further cost savings.
3. Land lease costs are too important to skip over; consequently the paper’s cost estimates are likely too low.
4. A grid composed of mostly solar+storage is far more reliable than the current ‘central station’ model. That is, the N-1 or N-1-1 NERC contingency tests are going to require fewer reserves for the solar+storage grid than the CCGT/nuke grid. Therefore, the estimated costs overstate the total consumer costs of a solar+storage grid.
Clean energy inventions offer safe, clean, cheap fuel-less sources of constant energy. They compare favorably with 'renewable energy sources' such as solar farms and wind turbines which generate cumbersome intermittent electricity that are still somewhat expensive and require backups.
The Gallery of Clean Energy Inventions is linked in https://app.box.com/v/cleanenergyexhibit and padrak.com/vesperman. The exhibit displays profiles of 31 Larger Generators, 36 Smaller Generators, 30 Advanced Self-Powered Electric Vehicle Innovations, 29 Radioactivity Neutralization Methods, 30 Space Travel Innovations, 25 Technical Solutions to Water Shortages, and a Torsion Field School Network.
I’m also a techno-optimist, but as the former CEO of an ocean-wave energy company, I’m also a realist about how difficult and time-consuming it is to turn good ideas into commercial reality. The advantage of solar+storage(+wind) is that these are all off-the-shelf solutions available today.
Anyone know what paper Dave is referring to when he said he had read the "white paper
about powering data centers with solar+storage"?
https://www.offgridai.us/
Hey Dave ReThink X,Tony Seba, et al have a clean energy cost curve for solar wind & batteries , 3.5 - 5x more generation than storage to optimize system cost. Their study is dated give the drastic drop in battery costs. https://tldrify.com/1fzn
Their system design is as crucial. Design for the least amount of S&W available. Where I live that can be 100hours + , in the winter.
If we are electrifying heating long (er) storage capacity is required in northern latitudes.
Suspect non- gas ‘ thermal storage’ is needed, maybe a la Finland https://tldrify.com/1fzp
In peak season there would be an enormous amount of “ zero marginal cost “ electricity looking for use, re energizing the thermal battery can be one.
Very interesting discussion. I would like this type of discussion (solar/battery) applied to an individual homeowner. I have solar for 100% of my usage (including 2 BEVs) and want to use those BEVs as a battery backup with bidirectional charging for necessary home devices during a short blackout (~3 days max). I would also like to hear discussion about putting more than 100% of use on my roof and selling my power to the grid at a reasonable price (10% discount at most).
Some of the generators profiled in the Gallery of Clean Energy Inventions are already available 'off the shelf'. See Spintronic Generator, plasma biomass gasification, protein nanowires, thermionic converter, iron-air battery, solar radiant energy, magnetic energy generator, Magneto-Inertial Fusion of Deuterium and Helium-3, PowerPod Circular Wind Turbine Generator, neutrinovoltaic generator, thermoelectric generator, Airthium’s High-Temperature Heat Pump, Magnetic Propulsion Engine, Hybrid Solid Fuel Battery with Reduced Generation Costs
Very hopeful stuff.
I was recently listening to a YouTube from a solar installer in Texas who analyzed the cost differentials between Europe and USA installations and the additional hidden bullshit costs associated with getting anything done in the United States triples the cost to us consumers. I find this so ridiculous and disgusting. I've known this to be the case for Australia versus the USA for many years as I listen to Australian solar programs. Unfortunately, I'm stuck here in this end of life country that seems to be doing everything it can to fail these days. Great program. Appreciate it and as always love you folks..
Did said Youtuber mention Texas Senate Bill 1202, which was signed into law? It is reportedly designed to streamline the permitting process for rooftop solar installations, potentially reducing costs for homeowners. We'll see what happens! 😉 Some claim that avoiding the soft costs related to permitting might make up for something like a 30% tax credit.
Not a competent discussion. Massive subsidies are still required which will now flow into electric rates with reduced federal tax incentives. Grid operators have come out with recent reports that highlight the inability of wind, soar and batteries to achieve affordable and reliable electricity. Clean energy credits and offtake agreements cost ten times or more than wholesale electric prices. Very misleading presentation; poorly conceived!
Are you for real or some poorly contrived Fossil industry AI right-wing fascist Chum spewing bot? I thought we were done with this garbage but I guess whatever you are will continue spewing nonsense, hoping one of us are idiotic enough to Believe you are for real. Would we be here if we were that dumb? I'll just assume you are a machine being run by a maggot on some some automatic crawler trying to disrupt honest discourse throughout the entire web. Sad. Even more sad if you're real