Upgrading power lines — “reconductoring,” in the biz — enables the electricity grid to transmit more power and leak less of it. In this episode, I talk with a CEO and a researcher about the national potential of reconductoring, if balky utilities can be convinced to deploy it.
This pod made me remember that power loss in transmission lines improves when you have a thicker cross section of aluminum in the line. Emilia and Jason showed that this power loss (P=I^2R) improves with more amps (I) in the line due to more conducting material added due to the lighter carbon. I thought that one of the two said that reducing power loss would be a good argument to the officials delegating these changes; i.e., the changes of more than doubling the line power capacity.
So PG&E, in an effort to stop burning down towns, have moved to burying their transmission lines underground (at several million per mile, I think they hit $3M last year). This conversation with sag seemed more geared to overhead transmission and/or distribution lines. Is there something different you'd do with the wire composition if you weren't supporting the power line over longer spans? Is there a reason to replace in place other than the difficulty in organizing any activity where you have to change any visible piece of the system for people who are accustomed to that system? Also, how do you realize pole count/frequency savings without changing the spacing of existing poles (e.g. doing more disruptive work on site throughout the system)?
Is there something to the induced action of the utility here? I'm not suggesting we wait for deaths, criminal charges, and bankruptcies to act, but it sure looks like a utility will build out when they are obligated to do so and we should lean into creating more of those obligations - especially when it results in better service, reduced risks, and lower costs for rate-payers!
another question for David and Emilia- what can states do in terms of pushing policy for reconductoring that is 2x or 3x what we have today vs federal policy (FERC)?
A high strength composite core carrying aluminum outer strand has been demonstrated before (at least 20 years ago) with multiple high voltage line for several US and Canadian utilities over at 5+ year test period (if my memory is accurate). The demonstration was successful. The composite lines were the only ones left standing after severe icing events in a few cases. Yet, the utilities would not adopt the product and the company went out of business after 10+ years of effort to sell the product. I wasn't personally involved and could only read press releases, but the main reason given was that utility transmission engineers are the most risk averse group of people on the planet. Careers would end if they adopted carbon fiber core (or whatever the name was) and it failed. If someone could recall that period, name of the company, etc., it would be helpful. The product looked and performed wonderfully, imo. Joe Spencer, PE (Retired)
Though I'm genuinely working on Something Serious (.org- yes, yet another Substack newsletter) as I try to recover from a post-service spinal cord injury I never asked for, I'll admit I'm kind of an idiot about several topics (my dad's the one w/a Ph.D. in physics, after all; as of this writing, I [only] have a BA in communication w/a psych minor)- but, given my experience in tech and life- this seems pretty darn nifty to me!
I just hope Dave's listenership includes investors, utilities, ratepayers, workers *and* voters...
One question that was not asked but seems relevant to gaining a big-picture understanding of the significance of these technologies and products is whether they are equally applicable to high-voltage direct current (HVDC) transmission as to high-voltage alternating current (HVAC) transmission? I assume the answer is obvious, but maybe not.
This was another important episode, and I am particularly excited about how the various break-through technologies you cover can play together to deliver very affordable clean power.
How about saying why Superconductors have not gone anywhere ? The one project Tres Amigas dried up and blew away. Also, "some of it leaks out" ??? Your program is worthwhile and necessary - facts without politics, very good !
In MISO at least, re-use of existing rights of way is being considered as one of a suite of benefit metrics for the long-range transmission planning process. That doesn't necessarily mean the installation of advanced conductors but it is a case of actually applying the benefits the guests here suggest.
There's a webinar coming up in a few weeks to discuss the reconductoring white paper that Emilia co-wrote: https://haas.berkeley.edu/energy-institute/events/energy-institute-webinar-duncan-callaway/
This pod made me remember that power loss in transmission lines improves when you have a thicker cross section of aluminum in the line. Emilia and Jason showed that this power loss (P=I^2R) improves with more amps (I) in the line due to more conducting material added due to the lighter carbon. I thought that one of the two said that reducing power loss would be a good argument to the officials delegating these changes; i.e., the changes of more than doubling the line power capacity.
So PG&E, in an effort to stop burning down towns, have moved to burying their transmission lines underground (at several million per mile, I think they hit $3M last year). This conversation with sag seemed more geared to overhead transmission and/or distribution lines. Is there something different you'd do with the wire composition if you weren't supporting the power line over longer spans? Is there a reason to replace in place other than the difficulty in organizing any activity where you have to change any visible piece of the system for people who are accustomed to that system? Also, how do you realize pole count/frequency savings without changing the spacing of existing poles (e.g. doing more disruptive work on site throughout the system)?
Is there something to the induced action of the utility here? I'm not suggesting we wait for deaths, criminal charges, and bankruptcies to act, but it sure looks like a utility will build out when they are obligated to do so and we should lean into creating more of those obligations - especially when it results in better service, reduced risks, and lower costs for rate-payers!
another question for David and Emilia- what can states do in terms of pushing policy for reconductoring that is 2x or 3x what we have today vs federal policy (FERC)?
great podcast
A high strength composite core carrying aluminum outer strand has been demonstrated before (at least 20 years ago) with multiple high voltage line for several US and Canadian utilities over at 5+ year test period (if my memory is accurate). The demonstration was successful. The composite lines were the only ones left standing after severe icing events in a few cases. Yet, the utilities would not adopt the product and the company went out of business after 10+ years of effort to sell the product. I wasn't personally involved and could only read press releases, but the main reason given was that utility transmission engineers are the most risk averse group of people on the planet. Careers would end if they adopted carbon fiber core (or whatever the name was) and it failed. If someone could recall that period, name of the company, etc., it would be helpful. The product looked and performed wonderfully, imo. Joe Spencer, PE (Retired)
Though I'm genuinely working on Something Serious (.org- yes, yet another Substack newsletter) as I try to recover from a post-service spinal cord injury I never asked for, I'll admit I'm kind of an idiot about several topics (my dad's the one w/a Ph.D. in physics, after all; as of this writing, I [only] have a BA in communication w/a psych minor)- but, given my experience in tech and life- this seems pretty darn nifty to me!
I just hope Dave's listenership includes investors, utilities, ratepayers, workers *and* voters...
One question that was not asked but seems relevant to gaining a big-picture understanding of the significance of these technologies and products is whether they are equally applicable to high-voltage direct current (HVDC) transmission as to high-voltage alternating current (HVAC) transmission? I assume the answer is obvious, but maybe not.
This was another important episode, and I am particularly excited about how the various break-through technologies you cover can play together to deliver very affordable clean power.
I've been waiting for this one. Thank you David - I learned a ton from this one
How about saying why Superconductors have not gone anywhere ? The one project Tres Amigas dried up and blew away. Also, "some of it leaks out" ??? Your program is worthwhile and necessary - facts without politics, very good !
In MISO at least, re-use of existing rights of way is being considered as one of a suite of benefit metrics for the long-range transmission planning process. That doesn't necessarily mean the installation of advanced conductors but it is a case of actually applying the benefits the guests here suggest.