I’m a mom/ pop scale solar installer in Maine USA. Each town has different AHJ’s with different requirements for permitting. Ranging from no permit, to $50.00 flat fee and setback sketches, to multiple plan-sets for each municipal department to scrutinize. Some towns (looking for revenue to pay their AHJ’s salaries or trying to discourage solar) charge a dollar per square foot of panel array size for the permit fee (a rip-off!), and those towns typically don’t have an electrical inspector to scrutinize the installation. The big deal with setbacks from roof edges are for firefighter access to venting strategies for controlling a fire, not “gas leakage” ventilation. By the way, I buy my panels from
a national distributor that, to their credit, offers job-site delivery, but i certainly pay for it in the cost of the equipment. I can’t purchase my panels for under $.50/watt. That’s my price without mark-up. We seem to be a long way from installing a system for an all-in price of $.60/watt, unless one has the buying power of a very large company, or small scale installers have the ability to buy directly from manufacturers…
Yeah, a diversion into who Dan Andrews is and why he is a somewhat controversial figure would make for a potentially entertaining podcast for a left-leaning American audience, but not one with much to do with renewable energy.
As always, David, I loved the show and I love your show in general. One thing, not much talk today about cost for Australian panels and batteries. I assume they get theirs from China with limited or no tariffs? One of the big problems here in good ol’ USA
That’s correct. We have an FTA with China and there are no tariffs on solar equipment or batteries. It does make a difference but as noted it isn’t huge in the context of the massive soft costs difference.
It also means we get Chinese EVs at some eye-popping prices.
Australia has a trade surplus and a free trade agreement with China. They do not apply punitive or anti-dumping tariffs to the import of modules or power electronics, to my knowledge. That said, IIRC, "soft costs" make up nearly 80% of residential solar costs in the United States, according to a recent conversation I heard with Nick Josefowitz of Permit Power and Elisa Wood.
We need that battery/computer distribution pole podcast ASAP. That was a great episode. You both have a quick wit and encyclopedic knowledge of the topic. You two should just check in a couple times a year.
Some good news to share! Toward the end of the conversation there was a discussion of streamlined solar permitting. Just last week New Jersey's Governor Murphy signed the automated solar permitting bill (S4100/A5264) into law. It passed in both the NJ Senate and Assembly unanimously (!!!). Details:
I am convinced that the appeal of nuclear is a masculine identity thing, just like oil and gas. This is being leveraged by oil and gas because they know that nuclear takes a while and is a good delay tactic. When you have large, expensive, 10 year construction projects, there is lots of money and jobs sloshing around, which is also very appealing. For a while.
Thanks for the mention of Santa Fe! I live there and have rooftop solar. Permitting takes a while, but color restrictions don't enter into it. As far as I can tell, the main cause of delays is the local utility's opaque permitting process. (When there is a problem with an application, they're not great about explaining the nature of the problem.)
Many installations in my neighborhood use low-angled skids, and the panels are hard to see behind the parapets. One consequence is that door-to-door solar salespeople keep ringing my doorbell, not knowing that I already have a system. 😁
What policies in Australia enable low prices for residential rooftop solar?
Australia has a suite of federal and state policies and programs that help keep the cost of residential rooftop solar low and make installations attractive for households. While some policies are evolving over time, the main mechanisms enabling low prices and strong uptake include:
1. Small-scale Renewable Energy Scheme (SRES) — Federal Subsidy
The SRES is the primary federal policy that lowers the upfront cost of solar-PV systems. It does this through Small-scale Technology Certificates (STCs) — tradable certificates created based on the size of the solar system and expected electricity output.
When a household installs an eligible system, STCs are issued and typically credited as a discount on the purchase price by solar installers, significantly reducing initial installation costs.
I ran into the issue with those obsolete setbacks for PV panels as I was trying to get a PV+battery system for my Accessory Dwelling Unit. I designed the whole thing asymetrically with a lovely big south-facing mounting plane, with the idea that I'd come back and do PV later. When I got around to that, I learned about the idiotic three-foot setback thing, which makes the vast majority of that plane unusable, since it's, you know, and ADU -- kinda small. After going back and forth for a while, we ultimately decided to just put more panels on our main house's roof, including some that will be on a shallowly sloped north facing section. Those ones will be less-productive, but oh well, we just did MOAR panels, the panels themselves are cheap.
I'm still annoyed about this, though. There literally isn't even a gas line to the ADU! The setback requirement is protecting us from a non-existent hazard.
I love mostly everything Saul is saying in this podcast, but it felt pretty blind to the educational, social, and political movements required to achieve AHJ permitting or interconnection reform across the US. He's right that it would be much easier without the Murdochs. 12 people showing up at a PUC meeting will not take a state from being hostile to net energy billing to magically forcing the utility to do immediate interconnection and provide a billing structure that makes sense for individuals to invest in DERs. Perhaps campaign finance reform might be more important than any energy policy.
It's a huge success story in Australia but I would have loved to hear how the Australian grid operators and utilities are handling this in cases where you get enough solar on a distribution circuit that it *does* need upgrades, as well as how they're handling grid-scale capacity positions if they see steadily declining ELCC as more solar gets deployed.
Truly an amazing show! Dave and Saul were in a mind-meld for 90 minutes. The discussion about bottlenecks was crystallizing. I can't wait to hear about the project to replace pole transformers.
What a political platform for a candidate. Why can't the U.S. install solar at a cost and timeframe similar to Australia? I, candidate X, have the solution and I will make it happen.
David, I love this show. You could have Saul on once a month and have plenty to talk about.
I’m a mom/ pop scale solar installer in Maine USA. Each town has different AHJ’s with different requirements for permitting. Ranging from no permit, to $50.00 flat fee and setback sketches, to multiple plan-sets for each municipal department to scrutinize. Some towns (looking for revenue to pay their AHJ’s salaries or trying to discourage solar) charge a dollar per square foot of panel array size for the permit fee (a rip-off!), and those towns typically don’t have an electrical inspector to scrutinize the installation. The big deal with setbacks from roof edges are for firefighter access to venting strategies for controlling a fire, not “gas leakage” ventilation. By the way, I buy my panels from
a national distributor that, to their credit, offers job-site delivery, but i certainly pay for it in the cost of the equipment. I can’t purchase my panels for under $.50/watt. That’s my price without mark-up. We seem to be a long way from installing a system for an all-in price of $.60/watt, unless one has the buying power of a very large company, or small scale installers have the ability to buy directly from manufacturers…
Yeah, the gas leakage thing was a little baffling to me and not mentioning the hardware costs as a part of this conversation seems like an oversight.
The difference is Tariffs. Wholesale cost of solar globally is ~9cents/kWh yet I can’t find panels in the US under 40cents/kWh
Love this podcast! Slight correction, the founder of Amber is Dan Adams, not Andrews :)
Yeah, a diversion into who Dan Andrews is and why he is a somewhat controversial figure would make for a potentially entertaining podcast for a left-leaning American audience, but not one with much to do with renewable energy.
As always, David, I loved the show and I love your show in general. One thing, not much talk today about cost for Australian panels and batteries. I assume they get theirs from China with limited or no tariffs? One of the big problems here in good ol’ USA
That’s correct. We have an FTA with China and there are no tariffs on solar equipment or batteries. It does make a difference but as noted it isn’t huge in the context of the massive soft costs difference.
It also means we get Chinese EVs at some eye-popping prices.
Australia has a trade surplus and a free trade agreement with China. They do not apply punitive or anti-dumping tariffs to the import of modules or power electronics, to my knowledge. That said, IIRC, "soft costs" make up nearly 80% of residential solar costs in the United States, according to a recent conversation I heard with Nick Josefowitz of Permit Power and Elisa Wood.
Than you
We need that battery/computer distribution pole podcast ASAP. That was a great episode. You both have a quick wit and encyclopedic knowledge of the topic. You two should just check in a couple times a year.
Posted a link to this excellent article in this section of my Writers & Editors website called COVERING ENERGY:
https://www.writersandeditors.com/science_and_medical_writing_30796.htm#bookmark16e
I hope this brings you new subscribers. You do a wonderful job.
Some good news to share! Toward the end of the conversation there was a discussion of streamlined solar permitting. Just last week New Jersey's Governor Murphy signed the automated solar permitting bill (S4100/A5264) into law. It passed in both the NJ Senate and Assembly unanimously (!!!). Details:
https://environmentamerica.org/newjersey/media-center/gov-murphy-signs-smart-solar-permitting-bill-to-cut-red-tape-accelerate-installations-deliver-affordable-electricity/
I am convinced that the appeal of nuclear is a masculine identity thing, just like oil and gas. This is being leveraged by oil and gas because they know that nuclear takes a while and is a good delay tactic. When you have large, expensive, 10 year construction projects, there is lots of money and jobs sloshing around, which is also very appealing. For a while.
Thanks for the mention of Santa Fe! I live there and have rooftop solar. Permitting takes a while, but color restrictions don't enter into it. As far as I can tell, the main cause of delays is the local utility's opaque permitting process. (When there is a problem with an application, they're not great about explaining the nature of the problem.)
Many installations in my neighborhood use low-angled skids, and the panels are hard to see behind the parapets. One consequence is that door-to-door solar salespeople keep ringing my doorbell, not knowing that I already have a system. 😁
Oh! Christmas gift! This one is going to be great!
Incentives played a major role. I asked Chat gbt:
What policies in Australia enable low prices for residential rooftop solar?
Australia has a suite of federal and state policies and programs that help keep the cost of residential rooftop solar low and make installations attractive for households. While some policies are evolving over time, the main mechanisms enabling low prices and strong uptake include:
1. Small-scale Renewable Energy Scheme (SRES) — Federal Subsidy
The SRES is the primary federal policy that lowers the upfront cost of solar-PV systems. It does this through Small-scale Technology Certificates (STCs) — tradable certificates created based on the size of the solar system and expected electricity output.
When a household installs an eligible system, STCs are issued and typically credited as a discount on the purchase price by solar installers, significantly reducing initial installation costs.
2. State and Territory Rebates and Loans . . .
I ran into the issue with those obsolete setbacks for PV panels as I was trying to get a PV+battery system for my Accessory Dwelling Unit. I designed the whole thing asymetrically with a lovely big south-facing mounting plane, with the idea that I'd come back and do PV later. When I got around to that, I learned about the idiotic three-foot setback thing, which makes the vast majority of that plane unusable, since it's, you know, and ADU -- kinda small. After going back and forth for a while, we ultimately decided to just put more panels on our main house's roof, including some that will be on a shallowly sloped north facing section. Those ones will be less-productive, but oh well, we just did MOAR panels, the panels themselves are cheap.
I'm still annoyed about this, though. There literally isn't even a gas line to the ADU! The setback requirement is protecting us from a non-existent hazard.
There was mention of solar not being effective north of the 50th?? parallel.
I noticed this idea also on other episodes.
The artic gets almost 24 hours of daylight some days. Check out this article...
https://www.riotinto.com/en/news/releases/2024/rio-tinto-completes-construction-of-its-solar-power-plant-at-diavik-diamond-mine
I love mostly everything Saul is saying in this podcast, but it felt pretty blind to the educational, social, and political movements required to achieve AHJ permitting or interconnection reform across the US. He's right that it would be much easier without the Murdochs. 12 people showing up at a PUC meeting will not take a state from being hostile to net energy billing to magically forcing the utility to do immediate interconnection and provide a billing structure that makes sense for individuals to invest in DERs. Perhaps campaign finance reform might be more important than any energy policy.
It's a huge success story in Australia but I would have loved to hear how the Australian grid operators and utilities are handling this in cases where you get enough solar on a distribution circuit that it *does* need upgrades, as well as how they're handling grid-scale capacity positions if they see steadily declining ELCC as more solar gets deployed.
Truly an amazing show! Dave and Saul were in a mind-meld for 90 minutes. The discussion about bottlenecks was crystallizing. I can't wait to hear about the project to replace pole transformers.
Happy New Year!
solarquotes is an aggregratator for 3 large energy owners origin, energy australia, agl
What a political platform for a candidate. Why can't the U.S. install solar at a cost and timeframe similar to Australia? I, candidate X, have the solution and I will make it happen.
David, I love this show. You could have Saul on once a month and have plenty to talk about.