29 Comments
User's avatar
Mark Norman's avatar

Balcony/plugin type systems won’t solve the problem, but they could be a great gateway drug! Just like a (very) used Nissan Leaf got me hooked on the sweet, sweet intoxication of EVs. Our fairly-large, 22Kw PV array also started life as a very modest system and we’ve juiced it up as we electrified the rest of the house and added 3 EVs.

If David didn’t ask about or promote implementing this in our home state (WA) I’ll need to have some words with him :)

Sam Matey-Coste's avatar

I've written actions people can send to their state legislators urging them to support balcony solar, with the Climate Action Now software! Check it out on Substack at https://climateactapp.substack.com/p/your-daily-dose-of-climate-hope-december-6f6

Lance Benson's avatar

"the amounts of energy that might be coming into the grid collectively are just, they’re not huge" I think this underestimates the potential. Imagine a battery-buffered system that can feed in the 1200 watts 24 hours a day (if the household demand is there). That's up to 28,800 watt hours per day. As many as 65% of U.S. households use less than 28.8kWh per day. Of course, there's a lumpiness to that usage--an AC or oven or even a hairdryer uses more than 1200W instantaneously.

A Utah-scaled 24-hour system could at least put a major dent in the demand for household residential electricity. That would require a lot of solar panels--5k (SoCal to Texas) to 10k or more depending on location, and something like a 20kWh battery. The inverter would probably need to be only slightly more clever. In theory (and elsewhere in the world outside the U.S.), this could be quite inexpensive--mid-thousands, not the $30,000-ish a rooftop system takes.

Robert Merkel's avatar

I was going to make the exact same point.

If you were really going to push this, would the Utah regulations stop you from putting in a much bigger "balcony" solar system in, connecting it to a level 1 (or a portable level 2) EV charger, with an additional amperage-limited home plug that feeds a maximum of 1200 watts into the home but can also take energy from the grid to charge the car if desired?

Peter A's avatar

The potentially high ceiling of total energy is what got me thinking when I watched a youtuber installing a system in Utah. If the law just enforces a 1200W max and is topology-agnostic, you have a shockingly high upper limit.

Sam Matey-Coste's avatar

I've written actions people can send to their state legislators urging them to support balcony solar, with the Climate Action Now software! Check it out on Substack at https://climateactapp.substack.com/p/your-daily-dose-of-climate-hope-december-6f6

Peter A's avatar

The answer got lost in the shuffle, but David asked what citizens can do to get the ball rolling on balcony solar in their own states, and I would very much like to know the answer!

I assume that as a baseline, you can write to your representatives. But I'm also wondering if anyone is organizing communication and advocacy.

Sam Matey-Coste's avatar

I've written actions people can send to their state legislators urging them to support balcony solar, with the Climate Action Now software! Check it out on Substack at https://climateactapp.substack.com/p/your-daily-dose-of-climate-hope-december-6f6

Peter A's avatar

Thank you, I just messaged all of my reps, and governor!

Don Steinke's avatar

I immediately wrote to key legislators to ask them to develop a bill that included support for balcony solar in WA State. They wrote back that they are working on it.

James Dang's avatar

I think these systems can only power one phase of your electrical panel. So you have to move as many circuits as possible to that side. And any 240V split phase appliances won’t be able to leverage this power. These are unfortunately the largest power consumers in an electrified home: water heater, range, dryer, heat pump. So it’s not really a solution to lower costs compared to rooftop solar.

Robert Sterbal's avatar

Even in a area that isn't great for solar (we have 200 cloudy days in western PA), the batteries getting cheaper is making me consider getting a battery and some balcony solar (even without utility company having demand pricing)

I'll probably put in a balcony solar effort on PowerRacks (https://www.powerfieldenergy.com/) just to figure out how cheap things actually have to be to justify solar based on my local conditions.

Robert Sterbal's avatar

I really appreciated the balcony Solar podcast

I don’t know if you’re familiar with power racks but they see ideal for this kind of set up

Shipping them is an expensive nightmare because of the bulkiness of them even though they weigh less than 20 pounds

I’m thinking you could almost ship them by greyhound for less than what the common carriers seem to be charging

One of the great things about balcony Solar is it tells you what kind of generation you’ll get on cloudy days before you install rooftop

If you know who’s working on balcony Solar in Pennsylvania, can you let me know so I can connect with them?

David's avatar

If power from balcony solar is typically a very small part of a household's overall usage, how likely is it that 3-400W panels would even be detectable by the local utility? Can homeowners just use it to reduce their energy bill?

Fred Porter's avatar

Cora sez "Utah has one of the lowest solar penetration rates in the nation." It's kinda low for rooftops I guess, but they are doing OK on utility scale. I'm often comparing CO with the other Four Corners states. I like "kWh/capita" as a metric, as opposed to %. Here is the ranking from EIA for H2 2024 - H1 2025 for combined "small-scale" and utility.

NM - 5,524

AZ - 4,169

UT - 3,286

CO - 2,050

Kind of surprising, eh. OK, CO has way more wind power than UT or AZ. NM kicks butt on both.

Despite the Dem "trifecta," CO is churning right now transition-wise. The leg tried and failed to pass local building code permitting reform. You would think that would have at least made local AHJs sensitive to over-regulating rooftop solar. Apparently not, up-valley in Basalt, home to Rocky Mtn Institute's Innovation Center, the building officials added a requirement for inspection and approval of roofs by structural engineers before mounting even a flush mount PV system. Here's the kicker. A home with a pioneering 20 year old PV system applied to replace it, to get 50%+ or more output from the same area and weight and probably a better mounting system. The structural engineer's criteria said, "No, your roof can't take it!" According to my solar installer pals this requirement has been added over the past year in other towns or counties. I assume I would have heard if some solar roof collapsed nearby. Probably at some conference of building code folks, someone said look some jurisdictions require this, everybody should, just to be safe, safe, safe.

Seems like there is some "abundance" lesson here.

In any case, all for an "abundance" of balcony solar. Though hopefully none will fly away or off in a hurricane or chinook or Santa Ana or earthquake. Tornados, everything flies away!

Linda Roberta Hibbs's avatar

My energy bill went up! ⬆️! Happy THANKSGIVING 🦃!

John Seberg's avatar

Not an Electrician, but if I lived in UT, I'd have a dedicated 20A outdoor outlet installed, and go nuts with the full 1200w with no concerns. Maybe I'd tell the Electrician to make it a GFCI outlet, but that is current NEC code by default.

As far as what one can get at Costco in UT, Google is giving me a lot of wrong (off grid) answers. The only correct answer was the "EcoFlow STREAM Microinverter". I've seen some smaller microinverters that didn't interest me, but I guess they exist.

The biggest problem on my radar is the potential of metering issues with Rocky Mountain Power (RMP). It could *cost* you to backfeed if things are not set up right.

I'm seeing a surprising amount of negativity. I dismiss about 90%. But I have to say, 1200w is pretty bold when Germany is limiting to 800w and probably has a more robust system to plug into.

https://us.ecoflow.com/products/stream-microinverter?variant=54376088010825

Fred Porter's avatar

"problem on my radar is the potential of metering issues"

I think the "metering issues" referred to are that some basic digital meters actually count KWh "back-fed," as we're calling it, as if it were, what, "in-fed," i.e. purchased! Any kWh passing through ratchets their total up, whether it's backward or forward.

The old analog meters just "spun backward." I'm not sure what is true for "smart" meters, which are all digital, just with TOU memory and communication. My meter has a little sticker, "Net" because I have the rooftop PV.

Really every meter installed from this point forward should be "net!" That avoids the need to "roll a truck" for every rooftop PV, balcony PV, home battery, V2G, etc., installation. And even if a "net" meter is microscopically more expensive now, I bet if they were all more similar it would reduce costs to manufacturers and distributers to the point they would cost the same.

I had one of those Sense meters for a while, and I recall there were many periods when my 2000 sf house was operating at 200W or so. Even a fridge isn't a constant load. An apartment with a 1200 W panel will be feeding back much of the time when the sun is beating on it, particularly if folks are at work during the day.

John Seberg's avatar

I think you're spot on. I've heard RMP has been proactive about rolling out the "net" meters, but, it's still a mix. And I think the law simply says the interconnection agreement is not required. It doesn't require the utility to facilitate a plug-in system. I haven't read the law, and not a lawyer, either. Jigar Shah has been roasting the IOUs, lately, and I think he gave RMP a positive shout-out.

You also raise a good point about coordinating loads to actually *use* the generation. I've done some noodling on that, and I am nerdy enough for that challenge. But I think most people don't want to mess around at that level.

Norman Koerner's avatar

I am in Pennsylvania and have 2 100V & 1 30V panel to charge my portable powerstations. That Ecoflow microinverter is only $299 right now. Is there anyway to off-grid that jawn without going through the local utility? Or do I have to wait until Pa. legalizes it, which could be the year 2500 Common Area if we go by how slow Pa. has been to legalize retail recreational marijuana in Pa. Thanks.

John Seberg's avatar

First of all, "jawn" has no meaning outside of PA. 😄

I'm not really qualified to get into technical electrical stuff. People seem to think @WillProwse on Youtube knows his stuff. Some of his content is pretty old, so I would look for "release notes" on his web site, after watching.

A portable power station is typically a combination of charge controller, battery, and inverter. The DIY guys think buying these as individual components can save money.

I'm chomping at the bit to do some of this, but my living arrangements just don't allow it. Cheers.

Norman Koerner's avatar

Actually, "jawn" probably doesn't have much extensions beyond Southeast Pennsylvania and maybe Pittsburgh, but outside the urban areas of "Pennsyltucky", it probably ain't a thing. Jawn was literally invented in Black Philadelphia and was first "discovered" there in 1976: https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/the-enduring-mystery-of-jawn-philadelphias-allpurpose-noun

Anyway, thanks for responding! Norman Koerner

Steve Beck M.S.'s avatar

This Balcony solar is a way for every American to cheaply use solar on their apartment or condo, or house. With the micro inverter giving the AC power, one can have up to 1.2 kW with a low ROI. This can work for every balcony orientation except north and have DC GTV charging of a BEV.

Robert Sterbal's avatar

AI Overview

The term "GTV" is not a standard industry term used in the context of DC (Direct Current) fast charging for Battery Electric Vehicles (BEVs). Standard terminology for DC charging typically refers to "DC Fast Charging" (DCFC), "Level 3 charging," or specific charging protocols like CCS, CHAdeMO, NACS, or GB/T.

It is possible that GTV may refer to one of the following:

Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) or Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR), a term used to classify vehicles by their maximum operating weight, but this is unrelated to the technical process of charging.

A specific internal code, model name, or a local/regional acronym within a particular company, fleet operation, or regional government initiative (such as those in the DC area mentioned in search results related to charging infrastructure programs).

A user or typographical error for a common term, such as V2G (Vehicle-to-Grid) technology.

DC Fast Charging (DCFC) of a BEV Explained

DC fast charging is the fastest method available for recharging a Battery Electric Vehicle.

How it Works: Unlike Level 1 and Level 2 charging, which use alternating current (AC) and an onboard converter, DCFC bypasses the vehicle's onboard charger and feeds high-voltage direct current (DC) directly into the BEV's battery.

Speed: DCFC stations typically operate at 400V to 1000V DC and deliver power from 50 kW to over 350 kW, capable of charging a BEV's battery to 80% in approximately 20 to 60 minutes, depending on the vehicle's acceptance rate and battery size.

Location: These chargers are primarily found in public locations, such as along highway corridors or at shopping centers, and are not feasible for residential installation.

Standards: Common charging connectors and communication standards include the Combined Charging System (CCS), CHAdeMO, and the North American Charging Standard (NACS).

If you can provide more context on what "GTV" might stand for in your specific situation, it would be possible to provide more specific information.

Jerry Wagner's avatar

Balcony & backyard solar is one of two current strategies to rapidly deploy widely distributed solar generation & storage that does not require any new utility transmission, site acquisition or other significant site improvement spending. It's all good, efficiently & directly benefitting ordinary rate payers without regulatory surcharges. And tenants can take systems with them when they move.

The other rapid deployment strategy, already adopted by both France & South Korea, is widely distributed behind-the-meter solar canopy parking micro grids, including on-site battery storage & EV chargers, mandated at ALL existing large parking lots NATIONWIDE within 5 years. There's a cost effective synergy in this that remote solar farms can't match. Even without mandates, this strategy could work in California & elsewhere if cities & towns adopted expedited permitting, allowing solar micro grid contractors to rapidly develop multiple sites with pre-approved standardized system designs & engineering. This is how modular classrooms have been rapidly installed at existing school sites throughout California for decades. Force utility monopolies to plan & adapt to DERs.

Marcos H's avatar

I love this podcast. It would be really helpful if the rss feed contained more comprehensive show notes linking to speaker bios, articles & papers mentioned, etc. Like a link to Brightsaver: https://www.brightsaver.org/about

Or to a NYT article:

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/08/12/climate/balcony-solar-united-states.html?unlocked_article_code=1.4E8.IwPi.jKJCBPPb4k4L&smid=nytcore-ios-share

All these links (and more) could be in the show notes linking/ post directly! 🙏 It is a great service to your listeners to collect links for them.

MikeB's avatar

Couple of points that I think got glossed in the mix on plugin solar (Germany/Utah) based on experience with my setup (done some years ago). Which *was* interesting and informative.

* Microinverters in conventional net-metered systems like mine have always been required to have grid-tied fast shutdown. If there's no grid frequency & voltage signal sensed, the microinverter simply produces no power regardless of sunlight and power from the panels. That's the fundamental "backflow" prevention - if the power's down, for safety, they don't want any power reaching utility lines somebody might be working on. On a regular rooftop system, there are a few more things done to work with 240VAC in the US, but even there: my solar at peak output might cover my dryer's usage, so a lot of the heavy electrical done at the time was more for show than go.

* "Positive safety" for balcony solar means just pull the plug, or at worst open the master breaker for the building/unit.

* Net metering is basically the agreement by the utility to pay for surplus power delivered. Even the current "solar+storage" type rooftop rates still have a net metering component since if the battery's full surplus power is produced and some (even just wholesale) compensation is usually paid. If they're not paying you for it, it's just a microscopic reduced demand on the grid, which might sometimes be useful in aggregate.

* As long as the equipment stays standardized - especially if there's no touching the breaker box, and no utility payment for user-generated power, something self-contained that just plugs into an existing 120V branch circuit should really need no more certification than a toaster. All it's reducing is a toaster's or a small refrigerator's worth of net power use. No way something like that can destabilize any real-world power system. I love it!

Ultimately, I think it's a case of 1) utilities basically being resistant to any kind of change in general even if the difference in their sales is microscopic; 2) ossified laws and regulations in general (PUCs and building code people don't like change either, and permit fees generate revenue); and 3) the old cart vs horse dilemma re. generating competition in a market.

Lance Benson's avatar

Positive safety is not just pulling the plug. The micro-inverter does not work to pass power unless it first detects utility power from the outlet, and then it repeatedly monitors for continuing utility power (I think by shutting off the inverter, checking, and restarting--in fractions of a second).